Q&A: Jackie Mason, a standup social critic
In 1999 as the Clinton regency was shaking off its latest sex scandal, I interviewed the Jewish comedian about his least funny subject -- politics
Comedian Jackie Mason died yesterday in Manhattan. Here’s his New York Times obit. Here’s the interview I had with him in 1999 for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
Feb. 28, 1999
Without that famous voice, without the perfect timing and delivery, without that Jewish comedian's cultural spin, it's impossible to do justice to the edgy, unapologetic, carefully refined and often politically pointed humor of Jackie Mason.
An ex-rabbi, Mason has made a living for four decades manufacturing one-liners about American society, politics and culture, with a special emphasis on Jewish life and the never-ending differences between Jews and Gentiles.
Lately, he's become a darling of conservatives for his gibes at the absurdities of 1990s political correctness and the Clintons, not to mention his attacks on black power, gay pride, affirmative action and feminism.
Mason, 64, is a relic from an earlier epoch of comedy, before four-letter words and raunchy sex-talk got the better of stand-up. He was blackballed in 1964 by Ed Sullivan for making on stage what Sullivan perceived as a vulgar gesture. His career went from the big-time to the medium-time until it was resurrected in 1986, when his first one-man show debuted on Broadway.
Mason is appearing at Pittsburgh's Funnybone March 6 through March 20 as part of the road-test for "Much Ado About Everything," his next one-man Broadway show.
Q: Are you going to be sending any checks to Mr. Clinton for all the free material he provided you with this year?
A: Oh, no. He should send me a check, because he doesn't deserve the job, he doesn't belong on the job and he got the job. If you or I or anybody else did all the things he did we wouldn't be president. We'd probably be someplace in a jail in Philadelphia. So I think he deserves to send me a check.
Q: And the rest of the American people?
A: I suppose everybody should get a few dollars out of this.
Q: How much Clinton material do you use in your new show?
A: I do at least a half hour of it, sometimes 40 or 50 minutes. I've developed hours of material but actually it depends on the audience. I'm not just like some comedians that do a programmed act. I have hours of material in my head from struggling and working and writing all my life. After all, I did four Broadway shows and each one was totally different from the other. But I make sure that everything I do is fresh and new, so it sounds like a commentary that is fresh as today's paper.
Q: What is your take on the whole sordid Clinton scandal — on Monica Lewinsky, for example?
A: Well, I have 15,000 jokes about Monica Lewinsky, but I make a living in the clubs, so if I give away the jokes about all the best ones here, everybody will say I heard them for nothing. Why should I come to the club now?
The truth of the matter is, I do all kinds of jokes about Monica Lewinsky, so does everybody else. But most people are just doing dirty jokes on the subject. They'll do 12 oral sex jokes. I don't get vulgar in my act. I talk about vulgarity, but I don't use vulgar terminology. I don't find it necessary to shock the audience with four letter words.
Q: Of all the characters in Monicagate or Clinton-gate or whatever, who was the funniest -- of say Monica, Linda Tripp, Clinton, Hillary or Ken Starr?
A: I think William Rehnquist, the chief justice. Just by putting on that robe, those stripes on the robe. I thought that was one of the most ridiculous things I ever saw and every time I looked at it, to me that was funnier than anything anybody said or did. It's like you expect the high priest of the world and all of the sudden he comes out with a clown outfit. He looked ridiculous sitting there with those stripes on his robe.
Q: In 1995 you spoke to the British Parliament about American politics. Sum up what you told them.
A: I was discussing every different kind of American politics of whatever was going on at the time. I don't remember what the subject matter was but I was discussing the president and what he could get away with compared to a prime minister.
If Blair, the prime minister of England, did one-fiftieth of what Clinton is known to have done, this man would have been out of office. Not only that, he would have been in jail in an hour and half. You can't get away with those kinds of indiscretions and those kinds of sexual harassment cases. You can't tell people, "Hey, I dropped my pants, are you busy?"
You can't do that in England and get away with it for 10 seconds. If there's a sex case in England, if there's the slightest suspicion that you might even have been looking too long at the girl, you are out of a job.
Whenever there is the slightest problem, whether it involves homosexuality, sexuality of any kind, any kind of off-kilter sound or look or deed, you're out of work. Just the implication of it destroys you. Here, you can go from one girl to another for months. At four o'clock in the morning you can try out different people. You can have phone sex, car sex, all kinds of sex and turn the White House into practically a whorehouse. And everybody says it's not my business as long as the economy is good.
Q: How do you label yourself politically?
A: I know I'm not a Democrat or Republican. I never care too much about parties. I attacked Nixon with the same intensity that I attack Clinton today. I had all the same kind of jokes about Nixon, about why I don't think he belongs there and all the jokes about his lying and his fraudulent behavior. I made a million jokes out of that, just like I'm making about Clinton's sex life.
Q: Who were your political heroes?
A: I would say Harry Truman was a great political hero of mine. Roosevelt. I would say I loved Ronald Reagan, even though I was disturbed about certain things he did politically, like the Iran-Contra story.
But as a human being, his integrity, his elegance, his class, his great, great respect for the office and his great patriotism -- he was an inspirational man and 100 percent legitimate in what he did and believed in. It was inconceivable to me that Ronald Reagan could be a sick liar and run around chasing girls in the hallways.
Q: What's the best thing about living in America today?
A: The best thing is that there's such a variety of places to go. When you live in America, basically it's like living in 37 countries at the same time. There's such a great variety of lifestyles and cultures and such a huge percentage of different peoples from different places. It's the most motley created country in the world. You don't have to go to Europe to see Europeans. You don't have to go to Asia to see Asians. You can see a simple person working for a living. You could see a genius. You could see a maniac, a pervert, a degenerate. You could even see a president who has all of these qualities.
Q: Somehow I knew a joke was coming there.
A: I didn't know myself that it was coming. I was really trying to give you an honest answer.
Q: What's the worst thing about living in America today?
A: I would say crime in America is about the worst. In America, crime is 10 times higher than any place in Europe.
Q: But it's been going down.
A: No question about it that it's gone down, but the question is, "From how high up?" If 1,000 people a day got killed in your building and it went down to 950, it doesn't make it safe, heh heh.
Q: What about racism? In an article in The Guardian about you, the writer seemed to criticize you because you believe racism isn't a problem?
A: I say there is very, very little racism against blacks today. I say there was a lot of it 30 years ago. This guy disagreed with me because he was a professional civil rights crusader who imagines that there is racism on every corner in America. I think it's a lot of crap. I meet very few people today who are racists and who dislike a person just for his color and wouldn't give im a chance in life.
Years ago, people were like that. They hated Jews. They hated blacks. They hated homosexuals. But I don't think there are many people like that today. I think the papers make sometimes more of it than it’s worth. But in reality I don't meet many people like that.
Q: Are there any jokes that you've told about any subject -- race or religion — that you wish you hadn't said or would like to take back?
A: Positively not, because I never saw anybody ever offended by my comedy. I don't do the type of confrontation humor that's outrageous or obnoxious. Nobody who has half a brain is ever insulted by anything I say....
When I'm talking to you, I'm making it sound a little more serious. But when I'm on the stage I don't lecture anybody. My object is to be as funny as I can with every line. If a thing comes out like an opinion instead of a joke, I don't even say it. Because people come to be entertained. They don't come to hear my opinions.
I aim at the highest level of laughs a comic can get and I'm consistently reviewed as the funniest thing they saw. Even the people who can't stand me, they say, "I don't know, he's too Jewish. He's too short. He's too fat. He's too old. But he was hilarious." No one could deny that they were laughing their heads off before the show was over.